Baking For Business Podcast
The Baking For Business podcast is dedicated to helping you start and grow your home bakery business and scale and expand with digital products. We believe bakers and treat makers can earn money in multiple ways by sharing their gifts and talents.
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Baking For Business Podcast
#Ep 70 : The Perspective Of Packaging With Karentology
Todays guest is on a mission to help you make a good first impression with your customers. Today we are talking with Karen who is the founder of Karentology.
Karen started out as a hobby baker who wanted to present an elegant package to her friends and family when she made her baked goods. That hunt sent her down a path to creating her own boutique packaging brand that she now sells through Amazon.
Karen strongly believes that presentation is a visual aspect that we all need to pay more attention to so that we stand out with our businesses.
In this episode we will cover:
- How her hobby turned her into a syndicated writer
- The importance creating an effective brand has with your customers
- The reason she decided to create her own packaging
- The trials she overcame when starting her company
- What advice she has for those looking to create their own products
Loved this episode? You can find Karen's boxes by clicking here or follow her on Instagram by clicking here
You can find the book recommendation mentioned by clicking here
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Hey, sweet friends, my name is Chef Schaumburg. I started my baking business with a bottle of DeCerono and one Bundt Cake Pan. Fast forward to today, from news to magazines, speaking on national stages and more. I can truly say that baking has changed my life. So now, as a bakery business coach, I get to help others have the same success. I've helped hundreds of my students across the world in my global membership program create six-figure businesses, mainly from home.
Speaker 1:The Baking for Business podcast is an extension of that, from actionable tips to valuable tools and resources that can impact you as a business owner. I truly believe y'all. We would never have been given a gift if we couldn't profit and prosper from it. So come on, darling. What are you waiting for? So just how important is it for you to want to stand out with your baked goods? Well, how important is it for you to want to stand out with your imagery period? Well, today's guest really believes in it, so much to her core that she created her own product. Today, we're here with Karen of KarenTology. Karen is a syndicated food writer. She is also the owner of a boutique designing packaging which I think you guys are all going to fall in love with, and we're going to hear her story of how she started baking, to how she went all the way through the process of creating her own packaging that's now available to us worldwide. So, without further ado, karen, thanks so much for coming on the podcast today.
Speaker 2:Thank you so much for having me, amanda. I'm super excited to be here.
Speaker 1:Absolutely, and so, before we get into the amazing products that she sell on Amazon, I'm actually in America and you're located in Canada, so tell us how did you get started in the baking industry?
Speaker 2:Well, I've been baking for a very long time. Baking's just, you know, it's a bit of a stress reliever for me. My husband's a big golfer and so his buddies actually like cookies and bars and squares that I make. So he he golfs a couple of times a week and normally I would have to bake so that he can bring them to the golf course. That's the truth.
Speaker 1:Oh, wow, that's amazing. Yeah, my husband has a big sweet tooth also. Did that love of baking come from anywhere? Was there anyone in your family that influenced you?
Speaker 2:Nobody in my family bakes. Where I was influenced with the baking really was from Martha Stewart. I grew up loving Martha. She was like the OG for domestic divas, right and I. How it all started. Actually, it's quite an interesting story. I loved her so much that when we got married I didn't actually know how to bake very well. At that point I could bake a basic cake, but you know nothing super fancy. I decorated my own wedding cake with gum paste flowers and I learned it through Martha Stewart doing this, and I created my entire wedding cake. You couldn't actually eat it, but it was this display piece that we pretended to cut into, but yes, that's huge inspiration for me.
Speaker 1:Wow. Yeah, martha is an inspiration to a lot of people. I feel like she's just timeless. She's been around and she still gets amazing with age. So what are some of the things that you and, as you're going about baking and doing things for your husband, what were some of the things that you enjoyed? Did you have a particular niche or a specialty, or just certain items you love to bake?
Speaker 2:I love baking cookies and bars, but probably more cookies than bars, because cookies are clean, they're easy to handle, everybody loves them. His buddies asked me for them. When we go over to friends' homes, that's what I normally bring over. Are you know different types of cookies?
Speaker 1:And did you ever? Did you sell your baked goods as a baker?
Speaker 2:I have never sold anything, and well, I've never sold any of my baked goods in my life, so my gift boxes or bakery boxes are sort of the first things I've ever, ever sold. Yeah, wow.
Speaker 1:Okay, that's pretty cool. I love that, I love that. So that really just shows how passionate you are about presentation. Yes, because normally people sell, so you didn't sell. So when did, before we get to the boxes, when did the writing come into play? Because apparently you were good with your baked goods, because you write for your local paper in Vancouver, canada. Correct, correct, exactly.
Speaker 2:So I had. First of all, I started off my Instagram account when my daughter went off to college, so I spent so much time missing her. I didn't really want to miss her that much anymore. I needed to fill my time, so I started off an Instagram account and started showing off some of my baked goods. Then I found out that the local paper was looking for a contributor, so I contacted them and offered you know my articles, thinking that it was going to be a one off I'm not thinking it was going to become this permanent thing and they received it, they loved it and before I knew it, I'm now syndicated across Canada.
Speaker 1:So, wow, that is awesome, and I believe you said over over 50 different papers.
Speaker 2:Yes over 50 different papers Correct Exactly, and it's not just. It's not just the major publications, but it's also smaller community papers as well, and also on different websites like Canadacom it's also. I can't remember exactly all of them, but there are quite a few of them. So all you need to do is Google Karen Gordon recipes and I think it populates to about six pages on Google.
Speaker 1:Wow, that's a lot of recipes and that's such a unique path, because most people, when the baking book hits them, they automatically say, okay, well, let me sell this and make a business. But I like that you found another way to take the baking book and actually make a career out of it with writing, so that's pretty cool yeah.
Speaker 2:So see, when I started baking and I wanted to give my stuff away whether it was just to give it to a friend to taste or whether it was to bring it as a hostess gift I wanted it to look good. I didn't want to stick it on a plate and cover it with cling wrap or stick it in a Ziploc bag. The reason was I wanted it to look as nice as the effort I put into it. And I tried many different things, like I've tried purchasing cookie tins and I would buy little bakery boxes, but it just wasn't special enough. The cookie tins reminded me of something like an old aunt would actually give out and it just didn't look good. And the bakery boxes I would bring it home and I would try to make it look nice with different ribbons and so on and so forth, and it just didn't cut it.
Speaker 1:Yes, and so you were just that passionate. That which brings us to the boutique packaging. You actually designed your own box. So tell us about the first box, and what did that process look like?
Speaker 2:Oh my gosh. Okay, so the first box that I designed wasn't anything like this box I. It was quite plain. It was very cute, mind you, but it wasn't quite what I wanted it to be. I knew all along. So if you, if we go back a few years, all of my treats that I would give out would always say from my home to yours. And the first box I actually designed, even though it was super cute, it didn't say that. It didn't say from my home to yours, it was just another cute box.
Speaker 2:So that that original product, actually it actually failed, and it failed on a couple of reasons. First off, when I started doing this, when I start manufacturing my own product, I didn't know how to look for a manufacturer. So I settled on the cheapest manufacturer I could find. And when you settle on cheap, you get cheap products and my product failed inspection. So they went through. So my the manufacturer at that point had their own internal quality control. They said it was fine. I never take their word for it. So, regardless of whether it's product that you know, whether they were, whether someone manufactures it or not, I always bring in my own third party to inspect the product. Well, when I brought in the third party to inspect the product. That product actually failed inspection. More than 50% of that product was actually poorly made. There were glue stains on it, the ribbons were all frayed. I was absolutely devastated.
Speaker 1:It was crazy and I can only imagine the hurt, because you've put so much passion behind it. And then money. So how, how exactly did you have the strength to just try again, to keep pushing?
Speaker 2:It's funny. So, because I had never manufactured or sold anything in my life, I I thought and I'm honestly a huge optimist, I think that everything comes up roses all the time. So when we created that product, I had also planned to go away on vacation. So I I said to my husband as soon as manufacturing is done, it's going to get shipped out, we're going to go on vacation and that will be my. You know, that will be my reward. So two days prior to us going on vacation, I found out that the product failed inspection. I was absolutely devastated.
Speaker 2:I went off on vacation and I decided at that point I wasn't going to actually do this product. This was not what I needed to do. But I prayed about it and I thought about it and prayed about it and I got back from vacation actually saying to myself I'm not going to do this. I thought about it a bit more and about a couple of weeks after that, I made a deal with God and I basically said I'm going to try doing this one last time because I truly believe that if he brings me to it, he'll bring me through it. Amen, yes.
Speaker 2:So I decided I'm going to do this, I'm going to try it, and if I fail, so be it. You know, no one can fault me for trying one last time. So I sat down once again and I actually designed something that I truly loved, which is the our home to yours gift boxes. So I wanted the box to be able to say it's from my home to yours and it could be used for you know, whether it's myself, who's just a baker, you know, hobby baker or whether it's someone who has a home-based business to actually look at that box and, without actually saying it, to be able to see it's from their home to theirs.
Speaker 1:And you guys. This is the part where I definitely wish you can see on a podcast, because I'll have the links to the carontology website and the show notes. But the boss that she's speaking of you guys is actually beautiful. The detail is very embossed, they have satin ribbons and the boxes actually look like little houses so they can fit macaroons, cookies, any particular thing. However, what's so unique about it is the box is just unique.
Speaker 1:So unless you're buying these boxes from carontology, you have a look that doesn't look like other people, and so when we talk about branding you had actually made a post that I thought was I said, wow, I wish more people would get this because you have these cookies that were in a plain package. But then you have these cookies in your box and sometimes people think, well, if I raise the price, then maybe I can attract a better clientele. But attracting that client not all the time is a price thing. Imagery is a bit correlation to that, and so how important is branding to you in terms of these boxes? Because it's like you hit the market and you're literally a disruptor. You created something that's unique that really isn't out there. So how important was this to you to get the message across that people need to look unique when they package their products.
Speaker 2:It's still a little difficult getting that message out because not a lot of people actually understand the importance one of branding, and with branding comes packaging. So it's you know packaging is vital to everything that you do. I'll give you a prime example. So let's just take a. Let's take a bracelet, for instance, a nondescript, you know silver bracelet. If you put that silver bracelet in a blue Tiffany's box, what happens Immediately? The value and the perception of the value of that bracelet increases substantially, exponentially. Now you take that same bracelet and you stick it in a plain old silver box or white or gold box, exactly just like those cardboard Tiffany boxes, but now it doesn't have the blue Tiffany branding or the Tiffany label, it's just a plain box. Guess what happens? The value, the perceived value, automatically decreases. It's all part of branding.
Speaker 2:There are other manufacturers out there who create boxes, but my branding is so specific that even my packaging for my boxes are branded. I don't just have my boxes wrapped in plastic and when you order them they just come in plastic. No, they all come. I want my customers to be as excited about my products as their customers are about their products. So my products come in an envelope, a craft brown envelope type box that is actually reusable. It's got the carontology branding on there and it says making pretty easy by carontology. And it's all about making pretty easy.
Speaker 1:I love it. I love it and more bakers have definitely got to give this packaging a try, because just to show you the type of people you would assume it would be tons of bakers, but you actually have tons of realtors who use your boxes, which I thought was pretty cool because it just goes to show you how important number one gifting is, but number two, how important branding is to people who want to gift to their clients, because these are people who are making large $1,000, $100,000 purchases but they're using these boxes to give to their clients. So how does that make you feel?
Speaker 2:It makes me feel really, really good. But I've got to share the story about how that came to be. So when I launched my product almost a year ago today and it was great leading up to Christmas, I sold a lot of boxes and right after Christmas because I only had the one design at that point I didn't have any more than the one design. I was a one-trick pony and right after Christmas, essentially the bottom fell out. Sales just dropped and dropped and it was around April and I was thinking to myself well, we're going into the summer months, nobody's going to be baking. How am I going to find a way to actually market my boxes Because they're sitting? Amazon fulfills my orders for me because I don't have a warehouse or anything in the States. I need someone to actually be able to ship these things out, and if they're not shipped out every month, they're just incurring storage costs from Amazon. So I needed to find a way to move these and I thought, wait a second, I could actually market these to realtors.
Speaker 2:Realtor sell homes. Bakers aren't baking a whole lot in the summertime because there's really no occasions. But if bakers could actually start marketing their baked goods to realtors, they could actually create a niche for themselves. So that's what I did was I started marketing my boxes to the realtors and introducing the importance of marketing what you call housewarming cookies or realtor cookies to realtors. And that's how the boxes and the realtor cookies or housewarming cookies, came to be, and actually over the summer months it was my sales didn't drop at all. In fact, sales actually took off over the summer months because bakers were using them for realtor cookies and realtors were buying them because they were putting cookies in them or they were putting other products in them to market them to their clients. You know, to basically, yeah, to market them to their clients.
Speaker 1:That's so cool. So you're out here helping multiple niches. You're helping bakers fill a void where it's low, and then also realtors, which I think is so amazing, and one of the things I'm big on is serving before you sell. So as a baker, I can definitely see someone doing that. I think it's a wonderful way to establish a relationship is to put some of your products in your boxes and give to these people who would be making these purchases because they're your ideal client. You know realtors are. They're trying to impress their clients, so they're your ideal client. They understand money and business and finance a little bit more. So that is so awesome. And I saw on one of your stories one of the realtors does these things, which is called pot buys, which I think is, and I think that this is something that we can apply to our industry as well. So tell us about these pot buys.
Speaker 2:Yes, so what pot buys are is to be able to remind their clients that they're still around, that you know they're realtors, and if they're friends or if they're looking to move that, hey, remember me, I'm here. I'm here to help you. What's really great about the boxes is because they're shaped like houses. They don't actually have to say, hey, remember me, I'm a realtor. All they need to do is stick whether it's drop cookies or regular cookies or decorated cookies in them, or they can. It can even be things like candy or what have you whatever you want into these boxes. They bring them to their client and their clients like, oh my gosh, I absolutely love these. Like, where'd you get that from? So now the clients got these houses and the great part about these houses is that they're built so sturdy that you don't throw them away.
Speaker 2:Once you get them, you can reuse them, whether you put them away and you fold them up and reuse them. Or, alternatively, some realtors and some bakers what they do is they add a pack of battery operated candles into the boxes and the boxes actually light up and so they can have those little lit up lanterns and when their friends come over, obviously the friends are going to ask them oh my gosh, where'd you get that box from? They're going to say I got them from my realtor, or I got them from my baker, or what have you? Guess what. It's word of mouth marketing. You cannot, you can't buy this word of mouth stuff. So it's one of those products that just keeps on giving.
Speaker 1:I love it. It's definitely sounds like it was created with some amazing thought behind it and you made a really great point, because client retention is so important. Too often with bakers, they're always trying to get more clients, more followers, but I tell people you know the clients that you have now. Their lifetime value is so much more crucial than trying to acquire a new customer. And so now you've had this business going on a year, which is great, but I can only imagine designing a product working with Amazon in order to get them to fulfill it. Were there any bumps in between or lessons learned?
Speaker 2:There. Well, first of all, there's a lot to learn from dealing with Amazon. They're huge and there's a lot of red tape and they're constantly changing the way they do things, so it can be quite tough. If I were in the US, for instance, if I lived in the US, chances are I would actually do my own fulfillment myself. Unfortunately, I'm not in the US. I don't really have that choice, so unfortunately, I have to rely on Amazon to do the fulfillment for me. But besides that I mean selling on Amazon or whether you're selling on your own platform what have you? What it comes down to is having the best product that you can manufacture. So it's not about just shortcuts, it's not about copying somebody else. It's about trying to find something that makes you stand out.
Speaker 1:That's so true. What advice would you have to bakers who are looking to elevate their packaging to try to do something different in order to stand out in their market? What would you tell them as to why it's so important to do so?
Speaker 2:There are so many bakers out there. I mean, all we need to do is just get on Instagram. You can see there are tons of bakers out there who offer cookies and baked goods and bars and cakes and cupcakes and what have you Outside of how something looks and how it tastes? That's basically it. As a customer, we've got options to go out there and if I want a cupcake, I'll go. All I need to do is Google and see people who make cupcakes around me and buy it.
Speaker 2:But if somebody's offering something that's different, that's a little elevated, I'm going to be. Even if it costs me more money, I'm going to be going to them. So, for instance, if I'm going to a party, for instance, and I want to bring cupcakes as a hostess gift, the last thing I want is to bring home a you know, just a traditional bakery box with cupcakes in it. Well, how special is that? But if somebody was offering, say, cupcakes in one of my mansion boxes or, forget, even my boxes in some in some sort of packaging, that was so cool that I could immediately use it and gift it. That saves me not only time, it saves money, because now I don't have to run to the mall and try to buy ribbons to make it look pretty. I can literally pick it up and go.
Speaker 1:And that's it. You're so right. And one of the things I hear from bakers, though sometimes they're so afraid to invest because it's it's a catch 22. I hear a baker say, well, I want customers to pay me, or these people won't pay that around here. And anytime someone says that, I always tell them you might have a branding and a marketing problem, because if you're positioning the right product in front of the right person, they should buy, and sometimes they're not. Sometimes they're so afraid to get that deluxe packaging to invest. But what they don't realize is that when you invest in the imagery, then normally that's when the income goes up. And so I thought yeah, I fully agree.
Speaker 2:The reason is, if you package cheaply, it's it's a reflection. It's it reflects on the value of the product and when you package, elevate your packaging it roof again also reflects on the value of the product. So I grew up learning this. My mom's always said cheap things are never good and good things are never cheap.
Speaker 1:You're so right. I've heard that before too. Or yeah, you buy some cheap, you get some cheap. So yeah, absolutely. What advice would you have for any other baker that's out there that's designing their own anything utensil or anything who wants to put their thing out there?
Speaker 2:you know, I would say, if possible, scratch your own itch. So, as I was mentioning earlier, I created these boxes specifically for me, not for anybody else. I wanted beautiful packaging so that I could bring you know, I could bring my baked goods to my friend's home and have them, wow and rave over them. I knew that there was nothing like that out there in the marketplace. I searched high and low and I knew nothing like this existed, so I wanted to create it for myself. You know, if somebody is doing something right now and they have found that it doesn't exist in the marketplace because, trust me, there are things that everybody does on their own that we don't know about, that they're doing because they cannot find it elsewhere If you can find the ability to actually make it and make it available for the public, you will actually have a product that will be successful. It will not be for everybody, but there will be a market that who will want that product.
Speaker 1:And that's something that I wish more people would understand too. It doesn't have to be for everybody. When some you don't want to speak to everybody, because when he speaks to everybody, he speaks to nobody. But man, when you put yourself out there and you really are that prestigious, which you're, which you're packaging, like you have, you really attract the good somebody, the people who don't mind paying money.
Speaker 2:Agree, agree, and it's not. You know, I want to say it's not just about the design, it's also about the quality. I'm really big about quality. So that you know the company that the factory that we now have our product manufactured at, they have their own quality control department. I don't just take their word for it that the product's fine. I hire a third party quality control company to come in to inspect all of the product before it's shipped out. And the reason I do that is because it's my name on that packaging. It's my name on this brand. It's a reflection of who I am, and I would believe that you know cookiers and bakers out there. You know realtors, soap makers, anybody. It's their brand, it's it's their reputation behind it. You want to put out the best product there is out there, because if you put out a great product and people love it, they're willing to spend that kind of money.
Speaker 1:Absolutely. I love it, and especially charcuterie people. We have a lot of charcuterie people who listen, so you guys are definitely going to want to check it out. I really enjoy talking to you today and I encourage everyone definitely go check out Miss Karen's boxes, especially if you're the type of baker or foodie person who loves to be unique, because you're going to love what you see and even if not her box, just really let the message sit in. What are you doing in order to stand out in the market? Miss Karen, before I let you go, are you ready to play lightning round? Sure, definitely. What is your favorite color? Block Me too. No one's ever said black before.
Speaker 2:Really, yes, black is my favorite color. It goes with everything and it's classic.
Speaker 1:Yeah, wait, wait, wait. A minute Baking with Blondie. I think she likes black too. I remember that Is that right, yeah, but we don't get black often, so I love it, I love it. What is your favorite dessert?
Speaker 2:Oh, cheesecake, bass cheesecake, cheesecake. Yes, I absolutely love cheesecake and I'm going to say this I've actually baked a six-inch bass cheesecake and dropped it into my original classic house box. It actually fits in there. I brought it to a party.
Speaker 1:Yes, Okay, who is your celebrity crush?
Speaker 2:Oh, oh, my gosh, I don't know. I would still have to say, probably Martha. She's always been, I've always loved her. I still love her to this day.
Speaker 1:Yes, Awesome, martha is a good one, and what is a book that she would recommend?
Speaker 2:we read One of your favorite books, Actually one of the most inspirational books that I recently read. The author's name escapes me now, but it was called 12 Months to a Million.
Speaker 1:Oh, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:And it was a phenomenal read. Yeah, a phenomenal read. It talks so much about branding. Yes, your product yes.
Speaker 1:I'll put the link to that in the show notes. That is a really great read. And what is a kitchen utensil? You cannot live without A whisk A whisk.
Speaker 2:Yes, a whisk is first, and second would have to be the stand mixer.
Speaker 1:Those are both great choices. I love it From the bottom of my little heart. Thank you so much for coming on and speaking with us today, miss Karen.
Speaker 2:Thank you so much for having me. This was so much fun chatting with you.
Speaker 1:Absolutely you guys. How awesome was Miss Karen. There were so many amazing takeaways from this, but overall, I hope that something goes off in your head that makes you think how am I presenting my gifts to the world? Because the things you bake, the things you offer in your business, all of those are your gifts. It's the talent that you have, and so many little key elements play a big part to that, and I believe Miss Karen covered it tremendously. Also, think that it's so unique to see another way that we can actually take a different path in this industry. Like she mentioned, she didn't sell her baked goods, but the desire to want to present them uniquely was so strongly that she just created another path. And there are so many different ways for us to create revenue, to stand out in this industry, and so I think her path is truly unique. Even if you guys do not look into our packaging or even if it's not for you, I encourage all of you guys to look to exactly, visit her website, see what it's about, so that you can get a visual understanding of what we've talked about today, and then next week I encourage you to think what can you do Now? Of course, obviously the easy route. You can check out her boxes and add them to your line if you really want to be unique and stand out.
Speaker 1:But some core things to think about is first impressions matter. We've heard this a thousand times, and so, if we know this, what first impression am I giving my client of me? That crumble isn't giving, or that great American cookie isn't giving, or nothing blunt cakes isn't giving? What first impression are you giving? And then, nextly, what does your brand identity say when you position yourself in the market and when you package the items that you do put out there? Consistency overall really helps with that. Too often, when we think about branding, we think about colors and logo and visual things and we stop there. But there is so many other things that are visual representation of your brand you, what you have on when you wear when you go live, your company outfit, your website, your photography we've had great people on here on the past who talked about that and then, lastly, of course, your packaging. All of those things also help you in order to raise your prices and demand a price.
Speaker 1:As Ms Karen mentioned, perceived value is so crucial because, regardless of the dollar amount that you put on your products, if someone looks at it and it doesn't align, that's what perceived value is. Someone else in their mind is giving you a dollar amount before you even open up your mouth and say what the price is, and they're doing it solely based on your look. And so, as a business owner, how are we making sure that we live up to the perceived value that we want our products to have? And hopefully, today's conversation, looking at Ms Karen's brand, hearing all about her story and her products I hope all of this helps you to make a uniform decision going forward, to truly understand the importance of not only just the visual elements, but all elements for you to stand out and create a better brand in your community.
Speaker 1:I really enjoyed this conversation. I think it was so, so cool and I love just hearing this story all together. So, if you enjoyed listening, do me a favor be sure to tag me on Instagram at bakingforbusiness and then also tag Ms Karen as well at KarenTology. Thanks so much for listening. Take care and bye for now.